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DarkRider

We're Listening!! Tell Us What You'd Like to See in an RPG Game!

197 posts in this topic

One other thing that should be addressed are:

 

1) The player's impact on the environment (footstep sounds, or making holes in the snow, throwing rocks, etc.)

2) Seasons -- one thing almost every other RPG ignores almost entirely... it'd add phenomenal levels of immersion to the game.

 

Seasons idea is great!

 

Rgds, Haldir

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Hi all,

 

yet another thing or two:

 

- solely skill based progression. Player should become less proficient, very slowly, in skills seldom used,

 

- and of course totally unleveled world! Think T.I.E. mod for Oblivion.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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I would love to see the Wolven as a playable race and not just an enemy. Something about being a wolf just makes sense for a druid/celtic/gaelic community. This is looking awesome!

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A huge thing for me in games is how realistic combat is. There are two things I like a) a numbers and round based system like in Knights of The Old Republic or B) a realistic system like Duke Patricks mods for Oblivion and Skyrim (check those out, the guy handles medieval weapons in real life and it shows in the mods!). Vanilla Skyrim or Oblivion are horrible in this aspect because every sword is used like a stick (well actually worse than one....)

Destructable environments have already been mentioned (trees) but let me add to that. If for example a mage becomes powerful enough to hurl a meteor at the earth, then at the point of impact a hole should be in the earth. Of course spells of this magnitude should be very rare and hard to perform.

Something interesting would also be different start times like in Sid Meiers Pirates. Imagine there is a Civil War going on and depending on the year you start in different factions would hold different cities because huge battles have taken places (battles which could have turned out differently if the player had been there 10 years ago).

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I'll be backing this once I've got the money in the right account ;)
 
There style of play I prefer is low fantasy, almost mundane where the fantasy elements are toned down. You have to struggle to get rich or good in your chosen path and so on. I am not a fan of classes, levels or perks, but realize there is little chance of escaping them ;)
So take these suggestions in that spirit, please also bear in mind I have no idea how difficult any of it is to code.
 
 
1. Slides or toggles during set-up/character generation that affect dropped loot, types of enemies, plant growth, build and crafting times and level of 'needs' i.e hunger, thirst and exposure. 
I am bored to tears with vampires and werewolves for example, so if there is any way to tailor the game towards certain types of enemies being more or less common would be great. At least for spawn points. Same with loot, for a more 'mundane' game, enemies don't drop much or very valuable loot unless it makes sense for them to do so.
 
I want to play a long game with one character, and want the game to move slowly. Plant growth and harvesting is determined by season, no apples in January. Crafting takes time.
 
 
2. I want to build my own home, and furnish it as I like. I may also want to expand it with with new rooms or additional buildings. And I want to be able to pick the location as freely as possible. Also see 1 above, building should take awhile.
It would be great if buildings/locations could be conquered or claimed, whoever controls it basically owns it. Though if I take a location a faction or NPC owns, they will probably try to take it back.
 
 
3. Related to 2. Sim Manor. I'd love to be able to run a manor or small village (and hire a steward to help me), build a bridge and toll house, a mill and plan what to plant in my fields. I'd need to hire guards and servants.
 
 
4. Extensive crafting (not just weapons and armour, but furniture, textiles etc), alchemy, enchantment, spell crafting.
 
 
5. Interesting companions/followers. It might be fun to be able to send them on errands. (get me 5 bear skins)  Marriage and children, no amulet requirements... NPCs of all ages.
 
 
6. Flying, by steed or spell. I miss flying all over Morrowind :)
 
 
7. Some way to throw more money at you after the Kickstarter if I feel so inclined.
 
 
8. Vilja the Higlander
 
 
9. Linux/SteamOS version would be nice.
 
10. Some sort of Lifepath character creation. answer ten or more questions where the answers will influence starting skills and equipment. Some way to make the character feel a part of the world, grounding them in their community from the get go by having a few relationships at start. Parents, siblings, a friend or two, some of whom may become followers.
Edited by Jarulf

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Hey everyone!

 

Something I would really like is a "Past" mechanic or option. I want to imagine a character, imagine a past for that character and insert it into the game. Give me a form to fill in that let's me decide whether I have parents, who they are, how successful they are, what I've done so far with my life, whether I am well known, notorious or a nobody. This would allow the world to adept to what I say is my past. Maybe I live in a small village and everyone knows me as a hard working farmhand? In that case, I'm friends with most NPCs in that village from the beginning. In a sense, this is "Alternative Starts" mod that allows me to create my own starting scenarios.

 

Also, I don't like state-based hits and misses. Parry takes skill, not only from the avatar (PC), but also from the person behind the keyboard (or console...). If there is some way to make parry/dodge and roll-overs part of the fighting system, that could be really interesting!

 

I've always been a sucker for dual wielding...

 

It would be great were it possible to explore the world without ever stumbling on the MQ(depending on choices made) or interact with others(NPC:s) who are actually involved in the MQ while the player is not, if there is such at all.

I agree, Main Quest mostly screams: be a hero! Save the world! I'd like to be (able to be) a nobody. Maybe I feel like an Imperial, wealth and status are priority number 1. Once I have that, I get bored and might decide to save the world in my free time.

 

Players will not be railroaded into joining any factions that don't jive with that character's role play experience.

This sounds very good. On the other hand, guilds have always been important (in history). I think (at least on a regional scale) guilds should be involved in events (and probably politics) and the player might come in contact with guilds during quests.

 

Another thing about guilds. I really miss the consequences of becoming a leader. People should (occasionally so it won't get annoying) come to me with disputes. People should look up to me, ask me to teach them stuff, come to me for guidance. I should be able to send them on quests and errand (I don't have time to do that stuff myself and I can sell them bullshit that it's for their training...). I should be involved in politics. Maybe, I fire my steward and do all the organisational and financial work myself... who knows!? Maybe one of my students makes an amazing discovery - finds a legendary artifact. I hear it, kill the student and take all the credit for myself!?  :devil: And end up with that amazing artifact to ensure I keep my powerful position! Only to learn that the other pupils don't appreciate the hard work I do for them and they turn on me... (hahaha)

 

Do what you want with your character and not be forced (FYI: If you pick a Warrrior class, you can't use magic. I HATE bullcrap like that). That or have no "class system" at all and just let the players pick on their in their heads, you know?

I agree. I don't like class systems. Although, it's about immersion, so some races might be incapable of magic.

 

Another thing I'd like to see is a rival/nemesis; a champion of the opposite side to oppose you.

Love this idea!

 

4) Incredible lore, legends and mythology that we can encounter in game. 

I agree with most points of his, although I haven't read them completely. Just wanted to add, I've dived into the lore on TES and the thing that annoys the most to such an extend that I love it is the fact that some things are contradictory. "History is written by the victor." Maybe some people remember it differently.

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Hi all,

 

re combat:

 

- no "spreadsheet" calculations whether player hits or not. You hit when you hit. Almost the only thing vanilla Oblivion got right. Dam inflicted by a hit, OTOH, should depend on player proficiency with weapon used.

 

Re MQ:

 

- is a MQ necessary at all? Let the player decide, by choices made, how his personal MQ looks like and develops. But the world is interactive of course so there should be threats/opportunities for players clan. Also threats/opportunities affecting regions as a whole and universal ones too. How player deals with these should have consequences. Like say invaders are more successful if the player does not oppose them and ultimately maybe largely exterminate his clan. Forcing the survivors to flee and live as refugees.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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An enhanced hunting system, tamable beasts, underground forts, orc playable race, more interaction with the environment, factions and centaurs :P

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Kia ora

 

The wants and needs of the many are indeed many in a game such as this.

 

I think an options menu thay is quite detailed maybe needed, I have cut this from a post I made elswhere (with some edits)

cause I'm not sure if it needs to be in an offical spot. It includes ideas from others that I feel have good merit.

 

My thoughts to the said points will be in spoilers to keep the wall smallish unless they are only a couple or so words.

 

If these things are included:

 

Hunger, Thirst & Exaustion etc.
Deseases - Something more then just behind the scenes stat reductions. If I decide to eat that rotting meat to temporarily fend off hunger, I want to know about it afterwords (vomiting, dizziness, etc)

 

Hypothermia -
Basically, give us a reason to camp or wear appropriate clothing

Injuries -
Something similar to Fallout 3. If you are trekking through the wilderness, far from civilisation, breaking your leg should make things extremely difficult

 

 

These I feel would be better set as options in the difficalty options, chexk box's to turn on/off.

That way people have choice on how hard and what extra's they turn on

difficalty examples

 

a slider maybe
easy
hard
adept
expert
Insane

then check box's  (maybe extended with a drop down) easy, tuff, hardcore
Hunger -- on/off   (maybe extended with a drop down) easy, tuff, hardcore
Hypothermia -- on/off   (maybe extended with a drop down) easy, tuff, hardcore
Unjuries -- on/off   (maybe extended with a drop down) easy, tuff, hardcore

 

 

- Get as many voice actors as you can even if it means putting an ad out for voice talent. Giving every character a unique voice makes the game world feel all that more immersive.

 


 

Make these realish,..

I have really really had it with Americanized accents, really this example could be use to help:

 

The Isle of Artaeum (ar-TAY-um)

I have spent years in chat rooms talking with people and having (mostly) Americans say "Isorry I can't understand you" I'm a Kiwi (New Zealander) we speak English. but really, it lazyness. I had to learn to listen to Irish, Scots and English Cockney's, Yorkies, Scouser and others.

If NPC's are to be of Celtic, Norse origins then let them sound like it if ther'er Germanic then so be it with a little effort we learn to understand them. It is for me imersion breaking to listen to a Viking that as an American accent. sorry bout the rant but NPC's need to sound like the culture they are. the number of people that went off at Vilja was/is unreal. Emma (Emma bless your hard work lass)

has a beautiful voice and a really choice accent, her passion and expression to a Norse like char is just so so choice.

(cool for those who don't understand choice)

 

 

- Give the player multiple options to complete each quest. People want to role play and feel in control of their destiny.

 

Totally choice, love this idea



BUT

I do not wish to have railroad quests.

I hated going to Riften and have some Ahole force me to the dark side with dishorrable quest lines, I was playing a good Char.

I hated getting bush wacked by some Ugly Orc with his teeth falling out (or looking like it) telling me to go kill Vamp's.

Would have been much better if it had come up in a dialog from an Innkeeper or other NPC or trigger by an NPC's rambling as he walked by, even better. Like the "Stay away from Shivermist Cave" etc

 


- Try to snowball some quests. Example: You start what you think is going to be a minor fetch quest looking for a staff and then it turns into something really big like getting caught up in between two rival groups in the middle of the forest, each of whom will take you down a very different path depending on who you side with.
 

Choice!, love it

part way through you find an NPC needs to inlist your help in the same dungeon and your choice is Ya/Na if you do the Ya option and you both work though the dungeon and live, you rep with that NPC go up, maybe you bump into said NPC two or three time doing quests like that and they say to you Sir/Mam your a good persion I'm going to offer you my weaponin thank for you goodness. You just got you a Follower.

 


 

- Try to create an alien world for your audience. There are too many games out there with generic castles and forests, etc. Create really foreign looking plants, shrubs, trees, buildings, and so on. Think Morrowind with its giant mushrooms! You want the player to constantly be in awe of the world they're exploring.

 

This need to be done wiseley in keeping with geogophy cultures etc but yep I'm in

 

- Give your characters quirky personalities and let the player see them get into awkward/hilarious situations. Find a balance between a driving narrative and those fun moments that make the game special.

 

Yep some of Falkaars NPC's had choice retorts in fights etc (funny as they were). down on one knee with a mil of health near dead "Is that all ya got"  {Yea right}

 

- Have places of interest that are easy to spot from traveling roads. You don't need a giant glowing sign or anything like that but seeing a random flag or tower off in the distance is a good way to draw people off the road.

Careful you might catch a quest, or ya death by some means,..  Yep nice one

 

- Try to create a variety of creatures and keep them in their natural habitat. Also, don't scale their levels to the player, it makes leveling up seem pointless

 

Maybe needs to be a bit regional like Nitch hounds round Telvanni Pot house's and towers in swamps and mash's, watery

places

 

- This is a big one: Make sure every dungeon/cave/fort is unique.
 

Yep be guilty of doing that cut and paste thing making my own stuff but would not try sell it.

 

Cut and paste is one thing but needs a chopshop job so you can't see it's stolen

 

- Write the most interesting quests you can think of. If you need to hire a full time writer then do it. You want players to be excited about what they're doing or discovering.

 

How bout somit really dumb.

Make a thread " Player short stories for quests"

 

Pick n choose, take the ones you like that could be turned into quests or, hell even books if they fit. a wee "Armorers Manual", two or three pages! so be it, its an item you don't need to dream up

Food for thought

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ohh i'm getting so confused, there's too many topic where we can post our idea :question:    ("FAQs" and "what you want in the game" in general discussion)

 

But here I am with another :dizzy:

 

I wish more layer/slot to dress my character for example torso,legs,hands,feet and also pauldrons,cloak,surcoat,ring,necklace,earring,hairpim... the possibility to wear circlet with hood... maybe something to decorate my armor like a head-animal cover for my elmet (a good example is Aesir armor mod for skyrim) or a belt with skull/book/relic

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The FAQ thread is an official one where we're taking your questions and picking from them for an official EoT FAQ.  The other threads are yours to throw ideas around.

 

As far as idea threads go, if a thread is started by a developer they will see it before other threads.  BUT  That's not to say we're ignoring any other threads - on the contrary....

 

Rest assured that if you post an idea in any thread, we're giving it our attention.  We're reading everything!  :toast:

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Here's an idea. Instead of a Main Questline, try to let the player create their own story by putting many different questlines out there for the player to pick. Why? Mostly becaise a "Main Questline" is rarely 'good' for players of all sort. As for ideas of questlines, make a lot of different ones. One base around dragon slaying for Heroes or maybe for villains, one base around joining a Bandit clan or Necromancer group (And eventually becoming a Lich?). There's a lot of different ideas of questlines you guys can find... Maybe ask around and see what stories that players would like to go on and pick from that group what is acceptable?

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I'd like to actually see the skill on using weapons. If player is bad with swords then the grip should be a bit unsure and wavering. This could also be seen on enemies. As you get better u get more skillful moves. Skill should not only be seen on numbers.

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Could be tricky to show to the player though, last thing the player will be doing or want to do is stare at an enemies animation to see how well they're handling the weapon XD

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Could be tricky to show to the player though, last thing the player will be doing or want to do is stare at an enemies animation to see how well they're handling the weapon XD

This made me think of some things I'd like to see some day in a game: primarily, unsurety in friend or foe recognition.  Sure, a secure area with patrols looking out for intruders might attack on sight if someone doesn't make the right hand signal, or predatory animals might attack on sensing, but walking around, people aren't usually going to recognize you from a kilometer away in neutral clothes and know, hey, our faction hates him, let's go all out at him right now! (Conversely, in a setting like Fallout New Vegas, wearing legion armor in an NCR military base should get the entire base shooting at you.) 

 

In a city, people wouldn't have friend or foe recognition until they had a chance to look at the face.  Wary people might not turn their backs to you, or keep a hand on the hilt of their weapon, and guards might follow you or initiate contact to get a good look at your face.  Wary shop owners would shadow you to make sure you're not stealing, where a shop owner that feels comfortable with you would let you pick up an item, but only charge you for it before you left.  Or if you had a title of honor or nobility (e.g. Skyrim's Thane), they might simply send you the bill.

 

For me, as someone who enjoys playing honorable characters, being attacked is my typical threshold for engaging to kill (at least for entities I can talk to).  Most games make "bad guys" or automatic enemies rather than a gang of robbers masquerading as farmers where you think you're fine, and then you're having your coin purse demanded of you, or a tavern goer that stalks you into the alley, then attempts to cut your purse or shank you.  Charisma type skills of reading people and influencing people would be wonderful, as well as empathic powers or magic like "sense intentions."  (Never been a fan of the cardinal alignment system as a subjectivist, but did like White Wolf's archetype/demeanor system.) Enchanted items like adagger that throbs at you to warn of harmful or deceitful intent or ring you can see while talking to you that changes color based upon honesty/deceit would be great. 

 

That's some stuff I'd like to see, some day.  Would be great to see them sooner than later.

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Hi all,

 

re game difficulty:

 

- regardless of what we hardcore gamers wish for it would be good to have a broad customer base. I e get as much IGG money as possible... So I suggest that lvl of challenge be player configurable at any moment by toggles for, say, sneak indicator, IFF, map info lvl, dam dealt and received, life needs, sighting reticule, sell/buy prices and so on.

 

On a different note I`d like to see a regionalized, dynamic economy where supply, demand and prices vary. Economy should also be influenced by seasons.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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Hi all,

 

re game difficulty:

 

- regardless of what we hardcore gamers wish for it would be good to have a broad customer base. I e get as much IGG money as possible... So I suggest that lvl of challenge be player configurable at any moment by toggles for, say, sneak indicator, IFF, map info lvl, dam dealt and received, life needs, sighting reticule, sell/buy prices and so on.

 

On a different note I`d like to see a regionalized, dynamic economy where supply, demand and prices vary. Economy should also be influenced by seasons.

 

Rgds, Haldir

 

Kia ora

 

Here, Here, second this

 

More game sales mean ,more add on game, means a series, maybe follow ups where we get to import chars to play the next episode

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About trading I don't remember if someone alredy posted but I would like to have the possibility to negotiate price (sell/buy) like were in TES Arena =D (yes i just started another Arena playthrough  :icecream: )

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Another thing I'd like to see, which may already be implied by the project so far, is resilience in the world.  Skyrim moved forward in this regard, but carrying the setbacks of a completely handcrafted world.  If a shopkeeper dies, they have a next of kin, but with such small populations, the towns are one bad disaster (in this case dragon and/or player attacks) from becoming broken.  There should be a multitude of extras, and there should be migration between the populated regions.  Ideally in a resilient game, a player might ghost a small settlement, but it would be repopulated within a few months, if not sooner (whether by peaceful denizens or otherwise would be nice to have it randomized to mix things up a bit: clearing a den of thieves might later open it up for farmers and other tradespeople, or ghosting a small civilized settlement might open it up for a clan of necromancers).

 

I was also thinking about solutions for old school vs new school quest approaches in a game that walkthroughs might not be useful.  Have the game be written for the old school approach, but also have an option at character creation for a quest pointer for those who don't want to get into the reading and thinking part so much; the character figures out the information for the player in this case.  An oracle in the game might be able to give the players that opt out of standardized pointers a one time pointer per fee paid (or favor; the oracle might demand a small quest of their own, like bringing specific food or crafted item).  Reward the players with some small badge or the like for completing a large number of quests unaided.

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a player might ghost a small settlement

 

First, in the spirit of the term : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3XN8xnJLw

 

 

To expand on this idea of repopulated areas that have been devastated, which I love, I was thinking that this would mesh nicely with some of the other ideas that have been discussed in regards to NPC/World reaction to the player. Some of those examples include becoming a feared force of evil, renegade, or as someone (Nik088 I think) mentioned becoming a Lich/Undead. Or maybe your hostile takeover of a region is more subtle? You beef up your positive relationship level (whether reflected in game mechanics/dialogue or not) the citizens and minor power figures like merchants/craftsmen, or even a few controversial nobles/persons of note. Then, you assassinate a figurehead (say, the Jarl of Falkreath for purposes of analogy) and who better to take his place and run the place than that capable hero that seems to help everyone out? (Well, aside from the  poor Jarl, who is now taking a dirt nap with all of his loyal supporters). 

 

Also, if you were to roll through town with fire and blade and a whirlwind of death, word of that may spread if you let someone escape. If you did leave someone alive, perhaps they can be scripted to migrate away from the area for a time if a certain number of key people are killed, or a threshold of violence is reached. A percentage and time of possible migration back to that area could be integrated. Like, if you burnt and pillaged an entire town , the blacksmith might run away and mill around in a neighboring city/town, or drown his woes at the tavern there, spreading your infamy over time. Say the dust settles, and people start to re-settle the town, he might return in a month game-time to salvage his shop. Or a competitor might swoop in despite the risk and acquire it. This kind of thing could even be the substance of a quest, with possible branches to/from assassin's guild, mercenary contract, thieves guilds, and so on. It could probably be accomplished without too much hassle, if the quest "root" is the same, you would only have to write the dialogue and code for all of the originating branches. Well maybe not as simple as that makes it sound, but my scripting knowledge is null.

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Hi all,

 

there are dangerous ideas floating around here:

 

- a counter-hero or predestined adversary of player. BAD, very bad... Pre-destination is an abomination. Interactivity means that only actions and events influence NPC disposition towards player. Baddies can turn to goodies on their own and vice versa. Friends become enemies and maybe friends again. I suppose that such a game is much harder to make than the ordinary "Chosen one, save the world. Till afternoon-tea if you please...". But it`s worth trying.

 

On another note:

 

- a world of equal opportunities. Meaning that NPC:s can do anything player can, use anything player can use. If there be special abilities, NPC: s use them. If there be perks, NPC:s use them and gain new ones as the interact with the world.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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About play as villain... I would a world where you realy be evil... in skyrim be evil means kill someone, even daedra not seem to be "evil"!! Take as example the quest from peryite, he send you to kill his priest instead of spreading a plague, or mehrunes dagon where the most evil think is to kill a mad.

I know that a world too evil or too cruel maybe can cause some problem to sensitive person but the "evil" in skyrim is too "childish"

For example I' m an evil darklord with my tower, my minions and so on, I recieve a missive from the jarl of Falkreath. I go because I want to see this idiot that summon a very very bad guy (me). When he recieve me he start to talk me as a servant... then what I would (as a overlord) is to impale him and his courtship in front of his palace and sit on his throne but the only think that I can do in Skyrim is to nicely refuse his request... that's not fair :cry:

 

I also realy like the ideas from jaded and rspano!! I would add also the possibility to rule a reign indirectly like put one of your minions on the throne (but none knows that he is your puppet) or charm the king with a powerfull spell/potion or even threaten him or via blackmail

 

Power to bad guys :trooper:

 

[Off-topic] To all druid: since bethesda dicede to trow away TESsaga, you are our last hope!! I cheer you up and I will try to give you all support that i can (even if I know notting about computer programming :pc: ) :cheer:

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there are dangerous ideas floating around here:

 

- a counter-hero or predestined adversary of player. BAD, very bad... Pre-destination is an abomination. Interactivity means that only actions and events influence NPC disposition towards player. Baddies can turn to goodies on their own and vice versa. Friends become enemies and maybe friends again. I suppose that such a game is much harder to make than the ordinary "Chosen one, save the world. Till afternoon-tea if you please...". But it`s worth trying.

I'm not sure I understand your intent.  "Predestination is an abomination" sounds like you don't want the game to tell you where to go.  There's the philosophical debate of predestination vs free will, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.  The reference to having quest adversaries is about having the game make plans that make your typical vanilla quest get complicated.  If you can be antithetical to an NPC, why can't an NPC be antithetical toward you, via your second point?  The adversary may or may not be willing to parlay and/or listen to reason (money).  The more diverse the outcomes could be, the better, but pitting an adversary for a quest opens up that diversity.  The anti-hero suggestion is not going to be about a main story line adversary in a game that isn't about a main story line.  I do believe having a main story line adversary is fairly standard formula, however.

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About play as villain... I would a world where you realy be evil... in skyrim be evil means kill someone, even daedra not seem to be "evil"!! Take as example the quest from peryite, he send you to kill his priest instead of spreading a plague, or mehrunes dagon where the most evil think is to kill a mad.

I know that a world too evil or too cruel maybe can cause some problem to sensitive person but the "evil" in skyrim is too "childish"

For example I' m an evil darklord with my tower, my minions and so on, I recieve a missive from the jarl of Falkreath. I go because I want to see this idiot that summon a very very bad guy (me). When he recieve me he start to talk me as a servant... then what I would (as a overlord) is to impale him and his courtship in front of his palace and sit on his throne but the only think that I can do in Skyrim is to nicely refuse his request... that's not fair :cry:

 

Although I'm not one to defend Skyrim, I would say that Boethiah's sacrifice and the reward from Mephala's quest are pretty messed up ("evil") - tricking and killing friendly NPCs.  I would also say that Mehrunes Dagon's and Peryite's quests are about how megalomaniacal "evil" can be. "My servant isn't doing what I want him to. Kill him!"  Of course, Mephala's quest line from Oblivion was so messed up I couldn't bring myself to do it, so I agree that Skyrim's content was much more shallow compared to Oblivion.

 

I would also say that Skyrim's problem wasn't so much that the evil was childish, but that the story was too limited in choice.  After choosing to protect the good dragon, and the blades disowned me, I decided that I would kill the blades (filled with blind hatred as they were) to prevent unnecessary future wars and bloodshed between human (, mer,) and good dragons.  Of course, the game wouldn't let me because they were "essential."  Likewise, I would have liked to eliminate the corrupt leaders in every city, but the story lines simply wouldn't let me do that.  Options to attack with lines such as "You will now learn that I am your better" or "I will no longer allow your corrupt rule to continue!" would allow both the egocentric and altruist archetypes to be realized in the game.

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