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DarkRider

We're Listening!! Tell Us What You'd Like to See in an RPG Game!

197 posts in this topic

To make exploration even more rewarding it would be cool if there were hidden treasures in really obscure places. I remember many times in Morrowind when I would levitate to the top of a giant cave and there would be a couple of items placed on a hidden cliff edge.

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I'm going to throw some big, potentially exciting but potentially scary (dev wise) ideas at you guys, having thought about what I would release if I were to make a game for several years now I will now present these ideas in the hope of seeing them come to fruition. I apoligize now for long walls of text. I will present the ideas as fully as I can but to save on reading time will make each detail as short and concise as possible. If an idea I present is not presented in a way that you can understand let me know and I will clarify. Finally, I apoligize if some of these have been mentioned before but I only read three pages of these and before these ideas slipped my mind I wanted to get them down. (Thus, I will finish reading the rest of the thread when done. :) )

 

1)   RPG's are fun, most of us can agree on that. The core aspect of an RPG is character development, IE usually a type of levelling system. The leveling system in this industry has changed very little in gaming history, with new ideas popping up slowly. As such this idea revolves specifally around the leveling system.

 

My idea is to remove it entirely and replace it with a system where the character learns new skills, new spells, new stats, and new perks purely on a basis of what they do in a gaming world. As an example, a player makes a character, picks a beginning for thier character, goes through their intro, and possibly picks a perk or automatically gets a perk based on their beginning. When they gain control of events, they decide to join a guild of mages. This act alone allows them the casting of magic, with a few basic spells at the characters disposal.

 

They decide, however, that they also want to learn how to handle an axe to put smiles in the bellies of thier enemies, and go to a shop and buy one. They go to a forest and practice by killing some random monsters, and after enough monsters they start gaining axe perks along with associated stats. In short, characters learn by doing and making choices in game rather than a boring menu, and this would be immersive in many inspiring ways and would set a new standard in the industry.

  • This would allow characters free range of thier skillset without a need to worry about a leveling up menu.
  • You could tie this in to realistic needs by disabling or slowing down leveling based on diseases, when they slept last, and when they ate and drank last further adding immersion.
  • Stats can be gained passively in this same manner by using skills related to the stat in question. Specified quests can reward players with unique perks, magic, or skills.
  • At any time people can look at thier skills in a menu. Needed for people who have dropped a character for a while and need to remember what they can do.
  • This allows the game world to be removed from number crunching, a potentially lore and immersion breaking system especially when systems are changed/upgraded between games.
  • To sum up, if I use magic in the game, my magic will get stronger and the stats related to magic will rise. If I use weapons that weapon will start doing more damage and more moves and perks will open up the more I use it. If I finish a long quest a perk related to what I did i that quest can be given as a unique reward.

2) Lore is a bedrock foundation on which every game depends on for great story and immersion. I am, however, tired of seeing the same lore ideas being used over and over again in games with little to nothing new being presented. Yes, werewolves and vampires are cool. No, I do not want a game where the interaction between the two, and between humans is exactly the same, I have seen that allready. What I want to see is how these two deal with a completely new environment and new and different races, cultures, and situations. Add some completely, truly unique races. Change the traditional way an old hat race interacts with the world, create new monsters nobody has seen yet. Obviously from what I am seeing you are getting this down but thought this needed to be said anyway:

  • New races with unique culture and look.
  • New monsters that are scary in form and function and often change the way people interact with their environment because of the way they hunt, thus leading to new cultural develpment ect.
  • Differing cultures as you wander the land. You can go very far with this but in short the way they talk, interact with the world, and each other is important I think.
  • Differing accents as you wander the land, as no two parts of even a small country ever speak a language in exactly the same way.
  • A detailed history which cultures and events can draw on to make you feel you are not plopped into a new world lacking said history. It's very nice when a game refferences many different things that happened in the past, and not just one major event. It's a large part of why I like elder scrolls so much.

3) I like what I have read about the main game being open story as well as open world, however I think a few things should be considered in this regard:

  • A cookie cutter guild based story bores me. I need to feel that I am being driven by events AND driving events myself. Choices should be presented which change the flow of the story.
  • Interaction with other characters is a key part of a guild, and I think this should feel as complete as possible. Seeing a character actually do things based on a conversation I had with them is fun.
  • I hate feeling like I am the only hero in a world supposedly full of skilled and talented individuals. Some quests should feature other aspects of the story the player knows is going on in the background and, sometimes, can actively see happen.
  • It would be good to see events randomized a bit. Perhaps in one playthrough an NPC decides to do one thing, in another he does something completely different, perhaps changing the entire quest line in a new direction. Just think of the replayability of this!

I have more, but this is turning into a big wall of text so will present them later.

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I'm going to throw some big, potentially exciting but potentially scary (dev wise) ideas at you guys (+some awesome stuff)

 

I like your ideas.  :read:   I hope the devs do too. ^_^

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I hope they like it too, because I am about to apply for the level designer open position.

 

Heck, that isn't even the end of my ideas, I've been thinking about how I would like to do a game for a while and what I am seeing is very close to what I wanted to do for one of them!

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I hope they like it too, because I am about to apply for the level designer open position.

 

Good luck!  :cheer:

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I hope they like it too, because I am about to apply for the level designer open position.

 

Heck, that isn't even the end of my ideas, I've been thinking about how I would like to do a game for a while and what I am seeing is very close to what I wanted to do for one of them!

 

A lot of your ideas sound like what our game is all about! Might be a nice match, we'll look for that application! :good:

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A lot of your ideas sound like what our game is all about! Might be a nice match, we'll look for that application! :good:

If you require any more information or if you did not receive that email as of yet let me know!

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If you require any more information or if you did not receive that email as of yet let me know!

 

Do you have easy access to St Louis? :huh:

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Kia ora

 

I just used this Elven name generator to tramslate "Tree Folk"

 

Female is "Eáránë Ciryatan", Male is "Mablung Ciryatan" or if I do just Ent Male becomes "Lamalas", Femlae "Itarillë", "Ciryatan" still the second as that is Folk.

 

So not so hard to work somethng out for Ent Folk or Ent's if it translated in some way right

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Do you have easy access to St Louis? :huh:

Not easy but I can get up there. I had chuckled when I saw St. Louis under your name.

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Quite a bit more. I read quite a bit in the last few days about this project even though I had been following it for a while, but it reminded me of a few things. By the way, I realize these things would be hard to implement in Dreamtime so am suggesting this for Echoes of Twilight. Again these are suggestions and the "I should....." in these cases is more of me giving an example than anything else.

 

4) Dynamic World, which bugged me about Skyrim and other games like it. Everything felt static, like the game was frozen in a particular day in time and that day kept repeating itself. I think there are things which can mitigate this quite a bit.

  • Dynamic in-game economy (I realize this has been talked about already but a few new ideas in here I think). The economy should shift not just based on what the player does, but what is going on in the world. Further, if the economy is bad, players can set an option where merchants will not buy things unless "they know they can move it." In fact it may be a good idea to turn this entire option on or off, giving players a customized gaming experience. I also like the idea a few pages back of somewhat un-leveled merchants in that the good stuff is there already, but you can't afford it.
  • Dynamic NPC's who vary their daily schedule. This may become a bit cpu-intensive for the game but witty scripting/sandboxing can allow individuals to visit a relative in another town for a few days, go to the shaman if they feel sick, or be found traveling the world. It would also be nice to have NPC's who encounter each other during this to have some dynamic back and forth conversation or, even, fights.
  • Dynamic Enemies: This has been talked about already but I think it would be cool if you could talk down enemies, clear a dungeon, or get them arrested, and see their reactions to each situation. It would also be neat if you could convince them to stop their evil ways, decide to join them (perhaps to stab them in the back while they sleep unsuspecting,) or in some instances confuse them into fighting each other. Each situation with an enemy can be made dynamic by allowing more options than just going straight to offense
  • Dynamic Changes to the world based on players choice and what is going on in the world. It would be neat, for example, if a natural disaster struck a part of the world thus changing it forever, like a flood for example would change the landscape, or a war would make the towns ravaged. They did this to an extent in Skyrim, for example yet it felt lackluster and boring after a playthrough or two. It would also be nice to see seasons, which may be time consuming but players would love it. Much more you could do with this but I understand it should be balanced with time constraints.

5) Enemies are a part of the game we love to hate, and is a main reason for conflict in a world. Most games write off enemies as something the player chooses not to interact with (Outside of battle), should be bland and cookie cutter, and stupid to the point of lore-breaking proportions.

  • Enemies should match what they are like in lore. If a large Velocoraptor hunts in packs and uses diversionary tactics I should experience that, with one or two in front of my eyes distracting me and one or two groups flanking my sides. If a dragon is supposed to be an all powerful enemy then the first choice a player should make when seeing one is "run." If a group of bandits killed an entire town one hero should have a tough time taking the entire group of bandits out by himself (unless he finds a cunning way to do so.) However, some players want to feel their hero is epic and better than everyone else in the world so these options can be mitigated with difficulty settings. Rather than an enemy doing more damage and having more health a difficulty setting can upgrade an enemy AI.
  • The above mentioned options for dealing with enemies.
  • Enemy bandits should be dynamic as well as non-enemy npc's. They should go out into the world and raid, and you may get lucky and find their base of operations relatively unguarded or empty because they are attacking a shipment, or their leader gone because he had business elsewhere. In fact, it would be fun for players to have the option of waiting for bandits to leave their base on said raid, go in, set traps, and deal with them that way.
  • Dealing with enemy bandits should cause a noticeable cause and effect in the game world. If the bandit leader wasn't there and there is a way he can learn who took out his posse he should hunt you down. If the enemies were bandits because a town was poor and ravaged by war, and they felt they had little choice, the town they were pillaging for should hunt you down should you enter.
  • Non-bandit enemies aka demons or wildlife should be more than a you see them you fight them encounter. I see a lack of specialist hunters in games, such as stalkers, ambushers, or yet more specialized things. I should fear going into the wilderness because of what I cannot see, not able to boldly go where I please and know that any enemy out there I can detect and dispatch.
  • I have a lot of ideas on specific enemies if interested.

6) Specific game mechanics, where content is the meat of the game this is the bones imo.

  • Crafting, should it be in the game, should be dynamic. It would be interesting to be able to have someone craft things for you (such as Sharpe Craftsmanship in skyrim where you order things from Grey-mane via a book) or choose to craft yourself. It should not outstrip loot though, as truly good weapons and armor have loving care put into them and as we have seen in skyrim crafting can replace loot entirely, which makes dungeon crawling less rewarding for many players. While testing armor you made yourself in skyrim was rewarding, so was finding that rare Ring of extra experience in Diablo 3. I really feel there can be a balance between the two. I also don't think you should be able to craft anything, as jewelers, armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, generalized smiths, tailors, ect are all different individuals because each takes quite a bit to learn and are separate things.
  • Loot is a complicated thing in that it is lore friendly to find great loot you can't use, yet frustrating when you can't find something good for your own character. I would like to see a trade system where you can talk to other adventurers and trade things they can use for things you can use. It may also be good to put in a formula where loot rolls can be a tad more in the players favor class wise. Since this is an open world, you could also use a transfer to other characters system.....but more on that in the next bullet.
  • This may be hard to implement but... it would be really awesome if your second character could see the effects wrought on the game world by your first character to some degree. Imagine, my mage goes into town upon character creation, and the townsfolk babble about the hero who saved them from the bandits nearby. They also babble about how an epic battle ensued between the bandit leader and the hero in town. Along the way I see a bandit-sized hole in a wall, perhaps made by an angry ursine who threw said bandit leader through it. Next to the hole is an ursine-shaped hole in the wall of the enraged ursine following his tossed quarry into the building. Obviously there would need to be a limit on how much each character affects the next, and it could be made optional as well since this might potentially keep another character of the same race and class from doing quests already done. This can be further expanded by a "Daughter/son of your first character" optional game beginning.

More later :)

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@SpectralDragon

 

Hi,

 

many of your ideas can be attended to by simply making the world 100% UNLEVELED in the way T.I.E. mod for Oblivion did. As I suggested here earlier. And have 100% skill based player progression. Simplifies dev work no end too.

 

Rgds, Oldtimer

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@SpectralDragon

 

Hi,

 

many of your ideas can be attended to by simply making the world 100% UNLEVELED in the way T.I.E. mod for Oblivion did. As I suggested here earlier. And have 100% skill based player progression. Simplifies dev work no end too.

 

Rgds, Oldtimer

With respect..... absolutely not. What I have seen of these kinds of things isn't balanced to the point of cheating. I also don't think you are getting all of my points correctly (admittedly it could be due to me not explaining things correctly.)

 

(Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with the TIE mod.)

 

Now, some (not all) items could be un-leveled.....but they should be randomly distributed about the world in a way where you have no idea where they are going to be once you start a game.

 

Now, should a uber sword be the same uber sword no matter what level you find it at? Oh absolutely yes. But it shouldn't be easy to get that uber sword. I was going to get into this in my next post but an enemy should have it, and because of the way un-leveled works the fact he has it means he is going to kill you in one hit at level one. This is completely lore friendly and a challenge for a player who wants that prize. However there should also be loot that is player leveled, possibly in a similar vein as diablo 3 does it. This would be something I at least haven't seen before.

 

Course, you do make a point about workload, it the workload is unreasonable the idea should be ignored. This much I understand quite well.

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With respect..... absolutely not. What I have seen of these kinds of things isn't balanced to the point of cheating. I also don't think you are getting all of my points correctly (admittedly it could be due to me not explaining things correctly.)

 

(Admittedly, I am unfamiliar with the TIE mod.)

 

Now, some (not all) items could be un-leveled.....but they should be randomly distributed about the world in a way where you have no idea where they are going to be once you start a game.

 

Now, should a uber sword be the same uber sword no matter what level you find it at? Oh absolutely yes. But it shouldn't be easy to get that uber sword. I was going to get into this in my next post but an enemy should have it, and because of the way un-leveled works the fact he has it means he is going to kill you in one hit at level one. This is completely lore friendly and a challenge for a player who wants that prize. However there should also be loot that is player leveled, possibly in a similar vein as diablo 3 does it. This would be something I at least haven't seen before.

 

Course, you do make a point about workload, it the workload is unreasonable the idea should be ignored. This much I understand quite well.

 

Hi,

 

you could  try T.I.E. out to understand how an unleveled game should work. I assume you have Oblivion. If not a copy is dirt cheap nowadays.

 

BTW, quality item distribution ought to be correlated to some extent with how difficult it is to get. But once in a great while you should be able to find a Daedric bow in a road dyke. That`s randomization with plausibility.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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All I know about leveled v. unleveled is from Morrowind. At an early level I entered a Daedric shrine. After that experience I sneaked around them whenever I came upon them until I was a "badass". Makes the game more fun, makes leveling more rewarding to have to run away and leave that loot.

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All I know about leveled v. unleveled is from Morrowind. At an early level I entered a Daedric shrine. After that experience I sneaked around them whenever I came upon them until I was a "badass". Makes the game more fun, makes leveling more rewarding to have to run away and leave that loot.

 

Hi,

 

vanilla Morrowind is a leveled game, though not player-centric. Remember Ordinators counselling you to run away and come back for that juicy loot when strong enough?

You`re not leaving anything, just saving it for later.

BTW, I`m writing this because I assume you meant: "makes leveling more rewarding than to have to run away".

 

The thing with an unleveled world is that once in a great while you get wonderful items from wimps or maybe even just find them laying about. RL is unleveled and games should be too. In an unleveled game world you have much more use for tactics and brains, another plus.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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Hi,

 

vanilla Morrowind is a leveled game, though not player-centric. Remember Ordinators counselling you to run away and come back for that juicy loot when strong enough?

You`re not leaving anything, just saving it for later.

BTW, I`m writing this because I assume you meant: "makes leveling more rewarding than to have to run away".

 

The thing with an unleveled world is that once in a great while you get wonderful items from wimps or maybe even just find them laying about. RL is unleveled and games should be too. In an unleveled game world you have much more use for tactics and brains, another plus.

 

Rgds, Haldir

I don't like my first interaction with someone to be a protracted debate, however friendly, but I simply do not agree with you on this point and hope you don't take offense at my disagreement.

 

In real life you would not find, say, a sword of damascus steel (which if you aren't aware is a lost technology and supposedly the best steel ever made on earth) simply lying around for the taking (our equivalent of,say, daedric) it would be in the hands of someone. You also would not find gold lying around either. You have to earn your cash, and this is done by climbing the corporate ladder or being creative. (IE "Leveling up.") If you explore ruins, you will find that the ruin is empty of anything of value, having either been taken by the previous inhabitants or looted long before you arrive. If you do run across a ruin with treasure in it then it is remote and hard to get to.

 

To sum up the above paragraph it is not realistic to find anything of value lying around, anywhere where you can just snatch it. Real life does not equate to Video games.

 

A true to real life loot system would mean that to get anything at all, you have to murder someone of power, authority, or raid a lawful institute. You would not find any loot at all in a cave, ruin, or dungeon. Any hideaway where bandits are lurking might have something, but they are bandits because, like you, they are poor. Crypts of the dead would be guarded.

 

No, un-leveled loot does not equate to anything "Real life" at all. In fact, we are talking about a setting in a fantasy universe, where our views would not necessarily be true on that world. That said, since we are not talking about real life, I do think there should be loot in the game, because loot is shiny and fun. I would like to run across that damascus steel early on, but I don't want to run across it so often that I have a full set within ten hours of starting a game. Such things are rare, they are simply not found in every bandit hovel (which is the problem with leveled loot at higher levels imo.) And when I do find it, I should have to fight someone for it, because such a rare and well made weapon would not sit in someone's loot chest, it would be used. OR, it would be found in a shop, but you can't buy it when you first start the game because it is entirely too expensive (which is much like real life.)

 

I still think loot should be both leveled, and un-leveled. Yes, you can find that damascus steel sword, but you have to work for it. It also will not be in the same place, where your next character you make "magically" knows exactly where it is, who has it, what is guarding it, what traps are in place, and exactly what to do to get it. There is nothing realistic about that at all, and why I hate un-leveled games in general. There are no surprises after the first play-through. This can be mitigated by randomizing who has what, and it can be further randomized with truly randomized loot (because, such things are traded, sold, and generally move about, and doing a randomized leveled loot generator will show that quite well.)

 

So, with the un-leveled loot somewhere in the world (you don't know where, and these things are quite rare.) coupled with the leveled loot, it would be a vastly different and far more immersive gaming experience than simply un-leveled, that was my original point, and I hope I explained it better this time than I have last time. You may or may not agree, but that's my view.

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A note here, on my part -- one thing I cannot stand about "levelled loot" is that for some bizarre reason I cannot use it (i.e., Dead Island is a prime example).  That makes no sense to me.  A beginner can pick up, say, a masterwork blade and use it, just not as well as someone with higher skill (obviously).  That is when levels really get annoying, for me.

 

Overall, though, when it comes to RPGs, I admit that I do prefer those with no levels at all, apart from that in skills, i.e., skilled based systems.

 

Just my two copper coins.  :dizzy:

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@SpectralDragon

 

Hi,

 

frankly, I don`t know what real world you`re talking abt. One without randomness("luck" in game terms)? Or one without unrobbed graves waiting for you to be robbed?

Or one without weapon caches hidden by defeated troops and forgotten? That you may loot risk-free.

 

Fantasy+plausibility=immersion.

 

As we seem not to share the same world, let`s agree we disagree.

 

Rgds, Haldir

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Hi,

 

vanilla Morrowind is a leveled game, though not player-centric. Remember Ordinators counselling you to run away and come back for that juicy loot when strong enough?

You`re not leaving anything, just saving it for later.

BTW, I`m writing this because I assume you meant: "makes leveling more rewarding than to have to run away".

 

The thing with an unleveled world is that once in a great while you get wonderful items from wimps or maybe even just find them laying about. RL is unleveled and games should be too. In an unleveled game world you have much more use for tactics and brains, another plus.

 

Rgds, Haldir

 

No you misunderstood my unclear writing. :) I mean that I like the idea that the world isn't tweaked for me. I loved to hate the ordinators. Unleveled world for me.  If I can't just go anywhere right off the prison ship it seems as if the world is real.

 

No, un-leveled loot does not equate to anything "Real life" at all.

 

I think it does. Finding something of great value in an unexpected place tells a story to me. Sometimes I'd want that story to be told in a quest but often I'm happier imagining how the valuable thing came to be there. If those odd placements are a very rare thing I'm happy, and I want to investigate every nook and cranny of the game world because of it.

 

But not just lying about, unless that's the beginning of a quest.

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@SpectralDragon

 

Hi,

 

frankly, I don`t know what real world you`re talking abt. One without randomness("luck" in game terms)? Or one without unrobbed graves waiting for you to be robbed?

Or one without weapon caches hidden by defeated troops and forgotten? That you may loot risk-free.

 

Fantasy+plausibility=immersion.

 

As we seem not to share the same world, let`s agree we disagree.

 

Rgds, Haldir

Daedric sword = Probably worth what would be millions of dollars in our own currency. If you owned such a thing, you would keep your eye on it not let it get lost in a ditch (as stated in the TIE mod you mentioned earlier.) I know If I owned such a thing I would make sure to keep an eye on it and recover it if lost. Do you find even the relatively common Japanese Katana (a real sword, not a fake) in a ditch? Or even the common handgun? Your example of a weapon cache makes sense, however that is government property and, thus, not risk free.

 

Yes, random things happen, but not with things worth millions of dollars. Gold necklace worth thousands of dollars? Yeah I can see that being lost, having flown out of someone's hand. It would be a very rare occurrence, but it can (and in fact has and will continue to,) happen. Luck and randomness are part of the world but people take random out of the equation as much as possible when millions of dollars worth of money is involved, though. This is what I meant earlier when I said unleveled loot is unrealistic and cheating in every system I have seen it in. Yes for stuff that is valuable but relatively common it works great for (so long as the placement is randomized each play-through), but the things like daedric weapons? I don't think so.

 

One does not get lucky enough to come into possession of something worth millions of dollars. But then again I seem to be the one with my head in a fantasy world according to you, so since it has become an unfriendly debate at this point, yes lets agree to disagree.

 

 

No you misunderstood my unclear writing. :) I mean that I like the idea that the world isn't tweaked for me. I loved to hate the ordinators. Unleveled world for me.  If I can't just go anywhere right off the prison ship it seems as if the world is real.

 

 

I think it does. Finding something of great value in an unexpected place tells a story to me. Sometimes I'd want that story to be told in a quest but often I'm happier imagining how the valuable thing came to be there. If those odd placements are a very rare thing I'm happy, and I want to investigate every nook and cranny of the game world because of it.

 

But not just lying about, unless that's the beginning of a quest.

You do make an interesting point, I too like to find interesting things in interesting places in my game. If I run into a ruin in a fantasy world in a unpopulated location I can imagine people haven't been to it in some time, for example. Again I don't think a game should be limited to real world examples of where valuable items are found or the game would become boring in that regard.

 

I would like to state for everyone reading as well that if my idea of both an un-leveled and leveled system of loot is a bad idea, I can handle that, I am simply putting these ideas out there as just that: ideas :)

Edited by SpectralDragon

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According to me, unleveled loot means loot that can be found independent of the player character's level. I like unleveled loot, similar to Morrowind. But I also agree with the idea to add randomness. Finding the same item in the same place in all playthroughs can make it less fun. On the other hand, people might feel challenged to acquire the item early in game, defeating whoever has the item. But I've grown to love role playing, instead of just playing a game. So I'd prefer randomness. The most rare items wouldn't be for sale, but "more common but powerful" items would be very expensive.

 

I'm also all for unleveled items; the player character doesn't have to be above a specific level to use an item. I think everyone should be able to do everything, unless racial traits make it impossible. Skill grows with experience. Using a powerful magical item while being unskilled might be similar to alcohol; have strange and potentially dangerous effects on you.

 

As for more randomness by using a leveled item system (like in Skyrim), it depends... If it is in order to simulate an ever changing world environment with people buying, selling, losing, trading items, that's fine. But I'd consider being a 'little' more ambitious and just make the buying, selling, losing, trading items real. Real as in, a specific NPC buys an item, spending money on it, making that particular shop richer. Meanwhile, another village gets raided by bandits, greatly impacting the economy there. This adds to the realism and makes it possible for actions to impact all kinds of things. It would make the economy much more alive and possible much more rewarding. Yeah, maybe it's a bit too ambitious :P But it would make the game far more reactive and sandboxy :D.

 

It goes without saying. So instead, I'll spent a thousand words... :2cents:

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